Hi there,

I had the following conversation the day after new year but I’ve been sitting on it ever since because some people might not like this one. It's one of those conversations. But if you can hear God in this, please share it with as many others as you think should see it. Thanks so much.

Mark
 
Change is coming. Worldwide change, but nobody's ready.

Mark, people in leadership and influence need to be replaced. Either that, or what they’re saying needs to be replaced.

Good grief, God! Where did that come from?? It sounds like those horrible prophecies that stuffy charismatics used to trot out when I was a kid.

Mark, settle down. It’s nothing personal, we’re not angry, not wanting to punish anyone, but it is true. Leaders and influencers everywhere need to be replaced, or what they’re saying does.

God, in my day I swear people wanted to sound like old testament prophets. They’d rant and rave and we’d all run around repenting, although not quite sure what we were repenting for.

Mark, that’s still happening, millions are trapped back there. They think they hear my voice, but what they’re really peddling is Religion and his sinister brother Condemnation. They couldn’t possibly accept what I really want to say to them, which is – I like them just the way they are.

Well, I don’t want to sound like them – and I certainly don’t want to hear you talk about ‘leaders and influencers needing to be replaced’. That’s not my game, God, I want to keep right out of their politics – who the heck am I to say stuff like that? 

Mark, this isn’t you, it’s just me. Leaders and influencers need to be replaced.

You’re not going to let up on this are you, God?

No. Leaders and influencers, big and small, from the most famous to the most unknown, need to be replaced – or they need to change what they’re saying. We’re not fussy, they can have it either way.

In most cases it will be their choice, but if they don’t make it, we will make it for them. We have to. We’re cleaning house. Worldwide. Changing how things are done. The leaders and the influencers hold the keys to the hearts of the people and we need the people back.

Oh man, God, I hate it when people start on about ‘God wants the church to repent…’ And ‘thus sayeth the Lord, I will spit out the luke warm blah blah blah’, it’s painfully predictable and so boringly religious – and this is starting to sound like that…

Mark, this isn’t that. I’m not bossing, not imperious, we’re not asking for ‘Christian repentance’ – we just want the people back. Leaders…

Leaders at all levels of Churches and Christian organisations, from mega to tiny. Right down to small groups.

God, can I not be part of this discussion please. I write books that Christians read – antagonising Christian leaders is plain dumb! There’ll be heaps of them reading this.

Exactly! Mark, our aim is not to antagonise. If leaders and influencers have a conversation with us about this; ask US what to do, not their ‘mentors’ and ‘oversights’, we’ll tell them how to let go of their firm grip on the minds and hearts of the people. It’s a simple matter. We may even share some leadership of the people with them, we’ll take that on a case by case basis, but we need the people back.  Change is coming. Worldwide change.

This is not the fault of the leaders and influencers themselves, we’re not pointing the finger, you all do that, but we don’t. Leaders didn’t create the system, the system created them. The system has to go! All of it. A completely clean slate.

Whatever that means, God?!?

It’ll be clear enough if people get serious about this and ask us.

God this isn’t more about revival is it? Please no! I’m sorry to be cynical, but everyone’s always on about blimmen revival, and yet when I ask you about it you just change the subject.

No. This is NOT about revival. You Christians want change within the structures you have built, but those structures are built on Religion’s foundation, not ours. This isn’t personal, not a disciplining of those in charge, it’s simply time for change. So few of your leaders know how to hear us, and for that reason most are standing in the way of what we want to do without realising it. They’re holding on to a system that needs to go.

But, God, I’m a ‘leader’ of sorts too. There are thousands who read my books… so I guess I’m probably part of the problem too?

Mark, if you stay in conversation with us, you’ll be safe.

Really, God?? Safe from what, your anger or something?

Mark, we’re NOT ANGRY! We’re just cleaning house. Attending to business. If you stay in conversation with us, back and forth like this, you won’t make the mistake of holding people back. They’re not your people, they’re ours. We’re a wee bit jealous in that regard.

Jealous of who, Christians?

No, people. Humans. Leaders and influencers in Christian organisations are blocking humans, inside and outside of Christianity, from discovering us. Everyone can see that. It’s been a worldwide problem for thousands of years and now it has to stop. Sorry, but it’s true.

How are they blocking people from discovering you, God? Their intention is the opposite for goodness sake.

Mark, organised Christianity has so misrepresented us that your message has become a turbo-charged, music and coffee added, version of the Pharisees’ crippling condemning poppycock. You all need to get honest with yourselves about this.

This will go down like a lead balloon, God.

Mark, it’s time to replace thousands of years of Christian systems. This is the complete strip down and rebuild of Christianity, the removal of systems and the re-establishment of personal relationship – submitted to me, not to man. The complete removal of all existing ‘authorities’. The age of all your little kings is gone. It’s time to reinstate the relationship between man and God with no intermediaries.

Sounds like you’re a bit cross, God??

Not at all. Your enemy has fooled you into thinking I’m inclined to be cross. He’s told you that you cannot hear me because of ‘sin’. He lies. You can hear me irrespective of your behaviour. But you have taken his lie the next step - instead of asking me whether he’s right, you have made it ‘gospel truth’.

You have followed Eve’s lead, argued with him instead of asking me. He’s convinced you that you can’t hear me, and so, to solve the problem, you’ve established complex religious systems and ‘spiritual leaders’ to hear me on your behalf. Over thousands of years you have built an entire system of belief around that lie and appointed others to stand ‘in the gap’ as you call it.

THEY BLOCK THE FLOW

You’re right, they do stand in the gap between us – they block the flow. They stifle the two way conversation I have designed you for. That’s not normally their intention, but your system says your leaders must hear me on your behalf. They say it’s dangerous to hear me direct, they dissuade you from conversation like this – you’ll struggle to find what they’re saying in the scriptures Mark and yet you have all believed it.

Well, what are they supposed to do, God??

Leaders are NOT supposed to hear me on your behalf. They can teach you how to hear me, but that’s it! Period. The people and I can take it from there. Your leaders think I need help. They’re wrong. I don’t want them telling you what I’m saying. I’m quite capable of doing that myself. I want them to let go and stop trying to control what you hear.

I don’t want your leaders leading you, I want to lead you. I don’t want intermediaries between us, I am the intermediary. You don’t need a support person when you meet with me, that just complicates things. I want to speak with you direct.

If your leaders would stop chattering you’d have a better chance of hearing me. Many of them would like to stop, but the system doesn’t allow them that option. Your Christian systems are nothing but a clever lie to prevent the people and I talking.

God, I’m not sure about this. I tend to be anti-establishment, you know that. I could just be making this up to ‘spiritualise’ my disenchantment with the control (I think) churches assert over Christians.

Yes, you could. But this is actually me, Mark. I’m saying this. And you’re not the only one hearing it, not by a long shot. Luther heard part of it, many others have heard it since, and more are hearing it now, including you. I’ve been saying this for thousands of years but now I’m coming to do something about it. You find yourself in a most fortunate age.

Many Christian leaders are hearing this themselves, but they’re blocking their ears because they don’t know what to do with it. The system has no place for this message, meaning the system has no place for us. Up until now we have had to make a place for the system, but that’s over now.

Old things have already passed away, all things are already made new, you are all peddling a dead system. It was dead before you and the father of lies conceived it, and it is still dead. No amount of prayer will ever revive it. I. DO. NOT. RECOGNISE. IT.

But, God, you’ve worked with it for hundreds of years, probably thousands? You bless it for goodness sake. I’ve seen you do so!

Yes, I have and I do. You demand that I do, so I fit with your demands.

Well, why stop now?

Because it’s time. Mankind requires something new for what is coming. Wake up and see what’s on the horizon, Mark. “I in them, and you in me”, bears no resemblance to the Christianity you, Religion and Condemnation have invented. You have made a life changing relationship into a system of rules and customs. You have taken the lover God and made him the boss God.

Revival is breathing life into a dead body so that it comes back to life. You’re all calling out for that, but it’s not going to happen. I don’t want this body alive again.

Reformation is what you need and it is different – it requires that the structure being ‘reformed’ be removed, completely disassembled and rebuilt from the ground up. Not new life in an old body, you need a completely new body.

When a thing is reformed the new is nothing to do with the old. I might for instance, crush all the bricks from a church into sand, only to make them into a beach for the unchurched to walk on. That’s reformation, Mark, and those with leadership and influence are not ready for all that to happen.

Ok, so God, is this all that horrible angry stuff about the church being too ‘grace focused’, not zealous enough?

No! The complete opposite - you’re not grace focused enough. Not by a long shot. You’re still far too focused on the accusations of the devil. What you have all missed, is that you can hear me, and easily converse with me, no matter how many of Religion’s list of ‘sins’ you commit. Your enemy has pretended my voice to focus you on your behaviour. Mark, all I want is conversation.

CONVERSATION LEADS TO RELATIONSHIP, BEHAVIOUR DOESN’T

Your only real sin is that you don’t believe me. Your naughty crimes do NOT prevent conversation, it’s the opposite – your lack of conversation allows your naughty crimes to become a bother for you. The only thing that stops you hearing me is your lack of belief and we can easily deal with that together. I just want to talk, and the Christian systems and leaders you have established make that so terribly difficult. 

So what are we supposed to do, God?

The complete opposite of what you have always done.

What have we always done?

You’ve disciplined those you believed at fault. You’ve looked for sin and punished the innocent.

Innocent, God?

Innocent in my eyes – ‘then neither do I condemn you’ ‘there is now therefore no condemnation’, ‘the steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord, though he fall he won’t be cast out.’

You have no right to discipline anyone. I do that, and contrary to your opinion, hardly ever – my burden is light. Conversation, not discipline, is what changes you. ‘Repentance’ does not mean what you all think it means, nothing like it. Your enemy and your religious systems have taught you it means ‘to change so you can be with’.  But what it actually means is the opposite - ‘to change as a result of being with’.

Can you see how devious the lie is? In your wholesale focus on sin, guilt and punishment, you have completely misunderstood simple gateways to our relationship like Romans 12, you read them over and over again in the ancient scriptures, but you don’t understand them.

The true meaning of ‘living sacrifice’ is a simple ‘hi God I’m yours, now what?’, but you have made it into mental and spiritual flagellation in an attempt to make yourself acceptable. You can’t make yourself acceptable, Mark, you already are. I love you. What the passage actually says is that if one establishes a ‘Hi God’ relationship, then I will tell you what I want.

Because so few of you ever relax into that sort of relationship, you never end up asking me what I want – instead you tell me what I want. But you’re very wrong about what I want. Very wrong!

Ok, so if what we’re doing is the opposite of what you want, describe what you do want.

Talk. Between us. God and man at table sat down. Each and every one of you, in discussion with me. Not listening to others tell you what I want, listening instead to me. I’ll tell you what I want, and most often it’s the opposite of what you think. I wish you could understand that I’M. NOT. CROSS. WITH. YOU.

In fact most often I want what you want, Mark, just like any father does for his kids. You’re my children. The way your leaders and influencers carry on, you’d think you were my enemies. I’m your friend. Friends want what you want.

Ok, God, most of this is what I often hear you say. But this bit about Christian leadership and influencers worldwide needing replacing, that’s new and it’s worrying me. 

Why, Mark?

Because I’m not convinced telling me is a good idea. I’m not really the guy you should tell this to. I don’t have a very big platform…

I’m not just telling you, Mark. I’m telling anyone who will listen. That’s the only criteria. Anyone truly listening will hear this. Size of platform is irrelevant.

Ok, what am I supposed to do about this?

Continue with these conversations. I’ll explain as we go.

God I’m feeling a bit dumb… I’ve written a book about Maori, Pakeha and the Land, a whole bunch of conversations with you about that – and now suddenly, I’m supposed to be an expert on all that.

No you’re not.

Well that’s good ‘cos I’m certainly not! There was a moment there when I thought I was, that lasted for about ten seconds, but then I fell quickly back to earth. I was starting to think I was one of those flash Christian speakers whose, well you know, theirs doesn’t stink. But then I realised I know nothing – writing the book taught me that I know nothing.

You know one thing Mark.

I do?

Yes. You know that you don’t know. That’s the beginning of wisdom.

It is?

It is. When you realise you don’t know, that no one knows, no matter how much of a big shot they are. It’s at that point you open the door to wisdom.

How so?

You open the door to comment from me. This was my idea.

What was your idea?

Maori, Pakeha and the Land, that great and wonderful combination, a cocktail of such power and greatness that it would have changed the world if you’d all listened to me. It still can of course, that’s the message of the book.

My book?

Your book. The book isn’t all the answers, the book lists all the questions, and how to hear me answer them.

Which particular questions God?

All of them Mark. Should Maori just drop what has happened and move on? Or should you Pakeha think hard about the skulduggery woven into the Treaty, and all of New Zealand’s colonist Government and Church history? And who should do what about what?

But God still it seems a bit stupid to have written a book about it, and then not to have any important sounding advice about it.

Much safer that way Mark, to admit you don’t know much, it allows you to retain the power you do have.

What power do I have God?

The power of sticking with what you know and not pretending what you don’t. It keeps you wild, free, pure – not weighed down with the concerns of those who are ‘important’. It frees you from having to live up to Christianity’s standards, and allows you to just hear from me.
 
It lets you focus on what’s really important. It keeps you like Hone Heke, such a great man in New Zealand’s history, and yet scoffed at as a wild savage. Wild yes, passionate yes, a man prepared to brave authority in order to make his point. I need more men and women like that Mark.

God I’m just an old white boy, I can hardly be compared with noble chiefs like Heke...


Mark this country has needed, and still needs men, and women, like Hone Here – people like Ratana, Tamae Iti, Apirana Ngata, Whina Cooper, the prophets of Parihaka - you need more who are prepared to say no, and less who are always saying yes.
 
There are far too many of you saying yes to authority and its rules and power – government rules, church rules – it’s time for men like Heke who said no to their lies, and their rules and regulations that keep people bound up.

God Hone Heke said no to government, but not really to Religion.

Mark Heke trusted and respected the missionaries. He believed the Treaty because it was endorsed by them, he believed their belief, which was that it would be good for the Maori. He took their word for it.

God history has portrayed Hone Heke as a savage.

History has done no such thing Mark, your governments and writers have done that. And more’s the pity, you could do with more as ‘savage’ as Heke.

You want to clarify what you’re saying here God?

Yes of course I do. I would have years ago if anyone had been interested enough to ask. Your safe white church could never have coped with what I wanted to tell you about Heke, Rua, Te Kooti and so many others. I still want to tell you. But you couldn’t hear me show you truth in the lives of men whose dignity and land you had stolen. Your god was far too white and self-satisfied for that.

Nice one God, what you just said should see at least half of my readers spit the dummy and run.

Mark you wanted me to explain my point about Hone Heke. What do you think it is?

Well I’m thinking about what Jay Lucas talks about – now there’s a guy who actually does know something about all of this. His book ‘Huia Come Home’ shines so much light on this subject.

What does Jay say Mark?

He talks about what Hone Heke said to the Missionaries at the signing of the Treaty. He was more interested in what they had to say than the Government Officials.

What did he say Mark? This is critical. Heke spoke for many of the Chiefs there that day. They signed the Treaty with enthusiasm and trust only to have that trust thrown in their faces by settlers who came to take control and ownership.
 
If any white man there that day had been honest enough to stand, clear his throat and explain the meaning of the word ‘Colonise’ (settle among and establish control over the indigenous people of an area) the assembled Chiefs would have been able to see your true intent. It’s critical that writers like you and Jay tell this story. The story of New Zealand needs to be untold.

Ok God I’ve just googled what Hone Heke said to the Missionaries at the signing of the Treaty. Here’s a bit of what he said…

“Yes, it is not for us, but for you our fathers, you missionaries – it is for you to say, to decide what it shall be. It is for you to choose, for we are only natives. Who and what are we? Children. Yes children solely, we do not know.”

What were you thinking when you were typing that out Mark?

That Heke took a very humble stance?

Yes. But you whites, instead of returning humility for humility, you believed his assertion that he was less than you. He was a great man throwing down a glove, lowering himself in negotiation as a great chief always does. But you, rather than throwing down your own glove, you trampled on his, picked it up and stuffed it in your pocket.
 
You assumed the higher ground, and that’s where you went wrong. Blinded by your own self-importance, you were never prepared to follow the example of ‘mere savages’ like Heke. You needed to ‘civilise and control’ so you could have their land, by fair means or foul. And when that’s your method, lord foul is always the winner.

God for goodness sake!! I’m sounding like a bleeding heart protester, a Maori-mad trouble maker.

No you’re not Mark, that’s me, I’m the ‘Maori-mad trouble maker’, not you. I’m a ‘Pakeha-mad trouble maker’ too, but right now we’re talking about some long overdue detail your Pakeha church needs to hear.

Nice one God, there goes another big bunch of un-subscribers and un-likers.

Let them go Mark. This isn’t a popularity contest, but you’ll be surprised how popular this message becomes. The angel Aotearoa is singing, chanting, stomping, dancing the sound of this message over New Zealand Mark.

God really, is that even a thing?

You know it’s a thing Mark. You’ve seen him with your own eyes.

Ok true, but I needed you to double confirm it, because it’s going to be the last straw for some good people. The idea of an angel called Aotearoa, presiding over this country, will be a little too much for white people in the church I suspect God.

Mark yes, there is an angel over this country, his name is Aotearoa, and he has many more sacred names, but Aotearoa will do for you. He is saying it is time for this message, saying that Maori have waited long enough, it’s time for change.

In the same way I listen to you, I listen to the angels too. He’s been demanding big change and now he’s going to get it. At long last the hearts of the Pakeha church will begin to turn toward the Maori. Far behind the hearts of those in government and the hearts of those outside the church – at last the hearts of the church are beginning, ever so slowly to turn too. Not all hearts in the church, but enough to make a difference. Those who resist this will end up swept up in the move anyway, unable to stop the tide.

The angels who have stood over the colonised nations since long before colonisation have made themselves heard, a collective voice. You can see it all over the world Mark. The counsel of the angels has been heard. Their wish is my command. Peace, settlement, a turning of hearts, white to black, brown, yellow and red, and all colours growing warmer in forgiveness toward white. A time of great friendship.
 
As usual the secular world has caught on to what I am saying and started the process long before the church – as usual the church had held on to old perspectives until the bitter end – but now, at long last, the white church is recognising they are historically implicated in the creation of a great evil.
 
They are waking up to the fact that they are standing in the way of repairing that evil. Why are they finally seeing this? Because I can wait no longer, I am coming to sweep the church clean and start again.