Mark's blog space
Christian Legends that need to be challenged:
That’s how the story gets told, Mark.
Yes, but God forget about the story - I want to know the real truth! I always thought you were a loving Father, and yet we get taught that you punished your one true Son in our place.
Yes you do.
I mean, one part of that story sounds good God, sounds like love…
What do you mean one part?
Well, the part where your Son was prepared to take our punishment, that part sounds like love, but the other part of the story doesn’t sound quite right, God. I think the problem is we’re too scared to think it through, scared it might mean we don’t have enough faith…
You’d better explain, Mark.
Ok, well, this idea that a loving God needed to punish someone so badly he was even prepared to punish his Son who hadn’t committed any crime? Really God?? Did you honestly need a victim that badly? It doesn’t make you sound like a father I’d want to be left alone with. What if Jesus was busy one day and you got mad at me – if you’re prepared to crucify your perfect Son, what might you do to me??
Why must you turn over every sacred stone, Mark?
Because Satan is hiding under a lot of them God, and I want to get him, knock him back on his haunches, cause him pain. But would you rather I didn’t?
Carry on, Mark.
Well God, this thing about you punishing Jesus is supposed to be a cornerstone of what we believe, something we’re not meant to question, but let’s be honest, it doesn’t really stack up does it?
Mark, you’d better lay out exactly what you’re thinking.
Well God, let’s say one of our kids, when they were young, had done something wrong and I was planning to punish them, and Miriam, wanting to spare them the pain, offered that I punish her instead.
That’s pretty much the story, Mark.
So it’s the true story, God?
I didn’t say that. Let’s take this slowly. It’s the way you Christians have come to understand the story.
Ok, well, if Miriam offered to take the punishment in our child’s place that would show that she loved them so much she was prepared to face my anger and brave the pain of my punishment.
But what, Mark?
But if I agreed to Miriam’s offer and punished her in my child’s place, it would show that I was so intent on punishment, that I needed a victim so badly, someone to vent my anger on, that I was even prepared to punish my wife for something she hadn’t done. That’s not love at all! A court of law would call me a tyrant for that sort of behaviour and they’d be right! I don’t think you’re a tyrant, God, so there must be something wrong with the way we understand the story.
And yet God, so many scriptures make it sound like you really did punish Jesus. It makes you look like you love us Jesus, but Father, it doesn’t put you in a very good light at all. So I’m asking you, have we misunderstood what the scriptures mean?
Mark, there are people who can no longer read this, they are incensed that you would question what they believe. They believe that the cross is the truth, and that’s that!
But God, I think the cross is the truth too. It’s clearly central to everything. The cross is incredible! I think it’s even more powerful than we realise. I suspect Satan has twisted the story over the years, so when we read the Bible accounts, we miss key things the writers wanted us to see.
Well, what are you saying then, Mark?
I’m saying that the common every day, never questioned understanding of the cross doesn’t really stack up, and someone needs to brave up, risk annoying the big guns, and ask you some questions about it.
And what, Mark?
And if no one else has the courage to do so, then I’m going to. Strike me dead if you like God, but someone has to ask you these questions. We need to stop asking everyone else, and start asking you. That’s what David did. About everything.
I’ve been waiting for you all to do it for eons, Mark. Waiting for you to question what you get taught - to ask me questions and expect answers.
Well, God, there’s no way that what we get taught can be true, can it? If you’re loving, then the idea that you are intent on punishing someone, anyone, for my sin, and that you’ll even punish your own Son if he’s the only one you can get your hands on. Really? That idea makes your love a joke.
But the argument is that the punishment I bore was so great because I was carrying all the sin of the world, Mark.
But Jesus, that argument doesn’t hold either, I’m really sorry to be saying this, but the same people also say that you would still have died, just for me, had I been the only sinner. So God, that means you would have crucified Jesus, needed to crucify him, needed to punish someone that horrifically, just for my sins and no one else’s. God, it wouldn’t enter my mind to nail my sons to a cross, no matter how bad their crime.
As I say, the story makes you seem unbelievably loving, Jesus, which we all know that you are, but it makes you look like a menacing tyrant, Father.
But Mark, it says that I laid on him the sins of them all.
Yes. I know. And what I’m saying is that it doesn’t sound like a loving father, so does it mean something different than what we think it means? Has something been lost in translation?
Something is always lost in translation, Mark.
Well, I need you to guide me through this, God, because I’m not sure, but I’m wondering, I mean seriously wondering if it could mean… Oh I don’t know. This is too complex God.
Carry on, Mark.
Ok, I’m wondering if it means that in response to God turning up on earth as a man, first the Jews, and then the unchurched masses they stirred up, decided to murder you. Actually murder, God. That was their response to God reducing himself to become human so he could prove he wanted friendship.
Murdering you was the culmination, the outworking, the demonstration of what us humans are really like. Our real sin, as you described it in John 16, is that we don’t actually believe you. Given that you are love that means that not believing your love is our real problem. Killing you is the ultimate expression of a son who does not believe that his father loves him, who rages against a father reaching out to him.
You’re surprisingly close to the truth, Mark, although many will consider you miles from it.
So God, if a son condemns his father to death, and then executes him; the father, if he loves his son, somehow takes on himself, accepts responsibility for the monster his son has become. All his son’s mess, his actions and his confused thinking, everything, he takes it all on himself. So I’m wondering if that’s what it means when it says, ‘Surely our griefs he himself bore, and our sorrows he carried’?
Do you think it could mean that, Mark?
I’m sorry but I do. And God, the verse that follows that one says, ‘Yet we thought he was punished by God’. The sentence structure suggests we were mistaken, that you weren’t being punished by God at all.
Yes, it does.
Alright, but there are still a couple of places in that passage in Isaiah that really do suggest you were punishing Jesus. It seems so unlikely, that the Father who runs to the prodigal son would do that, yet the verses clearly suggest it.
Popular teaching certainly suggests that, Mark.
So are you saying the scriptures themselves don’t suggest that?
No, I haven’t said that yet. Not so fast. I’m saying the reason you believe I punished Jesus in your place has more to do with popular teaching. Mark, let’s work through those ‘sticky passages’.
Alright, God, then it goes on to say, ‘the punishment that brought us peace was on him’.
Mark, I’m not a harsh God, not looking to throw you all into hell, and yet any human can see that if a mob gets together and executes God, punishes him for supposed crimes, that if anyone needed to be punished it was that mob and not God. And yet I was the one punished. By them. That verse does not say the punishment heaped on me came from God, it says the punishment brought you peace.
Ok true, but that means that we got peace because you were punished?
Yes, it does mean that.
Ok well, how God??
Mark, here’s a question for you: What if me hanging on the cross was not a story of the Father finally getting his victim? What if God wasn’t looking to punish anyone? What if the cross was actually mankind’s response to ‘peace and goodwill to all men’?
Well, that would be huge, God, but there are a couple of big questions around that idea. First is how did you dying on the cross bring us peace? It sure makes it sound like by punishing you, God was able to let us off the hook.
As you said yourself, Mark, that would be like you punishing Miriam so your kids could go unpunished. It would mean you were a tyrant, looking for a victim. If you’re not that bad, then certainly my Father isn’t.
Well what IS the story then, God??
Mark, I offered myself to humanity – my message was ‘here I am, I’m God, but I’ve made myself a man so we can talk’ - but you murdered me. The mystery, the power that wins men’s hearts is this; I didn’t retaliate like the stern God you humans think I am. Instead, I submitted like a servant, a heart broken dad. I offered my life as a sacrifice, allowed you to sacrifice me. And the result is that people everywhere, when they hear the story think ‘hang on, what have we done? We murdered God, and he let us??’ The story opens men’s hearts, Mark.
Ok, so God, later in that passage it says ‘The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all’. What’s your answer to that? It seems pretty clear. It certainly seems to back up the story of an angry God punishing his son in our place.
It might seem that way, Mark, but actually, on closer reading, if you’re prepared to throw out your presuppositions and risk letting me speak, it doesn’t mean that at all.
What else could it mean, God? I don’t want you to be a tyrant who needs a victim for the crimes of the world, but that’s what the scripture sounds like, and if it’s true then I guess I just have to live with it.
Yes. If it’s true you do. But is it true, Mark?
Well, it doesn’t sound like you, God, is all I’m saying.
Mark, let me explain how the punishment - men punishing me, not God punishing me – brought you peace. When you hear the story of the cross and you realise that God lowered himself, made himself a man to prove that he wants equal relationship, is prepared to make himself like you…
When you hear that, it moves you, it’s the core of the story. Mary Magdalene didn’t need the cross to understand my love, neither did David, but the cross filled the gaps even for them. Suddenly, so much they hadn’t understood about my love was made obvious.
The Cross does that. It demonstrates my love. The cross wasn’t our intention, but we knew from before creation that it would be your response, and decided to allow it. We could see that it would melt your hearts. It wasn’t the way we wanted to begin a relationship, but we could see that it would work for you, so we went with it. “The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.” We saw that allowing you to nail me to the cross would allow us to demonstrate how we feel about you humans.
Mark, we don’t want to judge and punish, we want friendship. When you realise it wasn’t just enough to be made small like you; I was also prepared to submit to your will, even let you murder me – something about that story melts your heart, brings you into relationship with us, heals your hearts. 1 PETER 2:24 “By his wounds you have been healed.”
And it’s no story, Mark, it’s truth. When you hear those words you’re touching the very meaning of the universe – God wants a back and forth relationship. He wants it so badly he makes himself small, equal to you, vulnerable to the decisions you make about him, no matter how murderous.
And that knowledge, Mark, that my love is so strong that I will never retaliate, never hurt you, no matter how angry you are, no matter how deep your mess, that knowledge wins your heart. “Love so amazing, so divine, demands my soul, my life, my all.” The cross proves I’m not a harsh God, wanting to punish sinful humans, I’m a servant God allowing you to punish me, if that’s what it takes to reach you.
But Religion, that enemy of the Cross, has made the story about right and wrong and punishment and repentance. That’s the opposite of what the story means.
That won’t win you many friends in religious circles, God.
Mark, I’ve never had many friends in those circles. The cross is the ultimate demonstration that whatever you do, even right down to killing me, I’m still going to overlook it – “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” I just want connection.
Ok, God, but what about where it says, ‘the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all’?
Can’t you see, Mark? Everything we’ve just talked about makes it obvious. We saw from before the beginning what your response would be when God was revealed as a man, and we decided we’d still do it. All three of us agreed to it. We are one. I, the Son, took your grief and mess and the punishment you meted out that day, the punishment that really you deserved yourself, I took it all on myself.
The three of us, as one, took the punishment you dished out on ourselves. We accepted it, allowed it, and Jesus the representative of the three of us that day, bore the excruciating pain.
I, the Father, allowed him to take it on himself, laid it, gently, lovingly on him. Because we are one, it meant I was also putting it on myself. And, I the Spirit, held his hand while the Father mopped his brow. We took your ‘sin’ upon us, Mark, your real sin, which is that you don’t believe our love. John 16:9
In Revelation it says about me ‘with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation’. Mark, I purchased them for God, not from him. I didn’t need to pay God for you. That would make me a hero and my father a villain. That’s a lie. The act of submitting to mob murder has melted the hearts of people, from every tribe and nation ever since. Don’t you get that?
Mark, that rubbish about ‘Sinners in the hands of an angry God’, is a lie, carefully concocted by the prince of lies. The real truth is ‘God in the hands of angry sinners’. A truth that breaks down the barriers between us. I submitted myself into the hands of an angry mob, an act so shocking, so humbling, an act that only a servant God, a loving and not angry Father could be capable of. And as a result, millions of hearts have turned to me.
The cross wasn’t so you could get into heaven. The cross was to demonstrate that the door to heaven is open, has always been and will always be. I endured the cross to demonstrate that whatever you do, I’m going to stand and wait ‘til you’re ready to respond. “Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.”
Ok God, so you keep quoting from the Bible, does that mean having the Bible is crucial? If so, what about the people who don’t? What about Christians who never have one? How do they manage to have a relationship with you God??
Explain your question, Mark. Break it down. Plenty of people will be deeply concerned that you would even ask.
I mean like continual, habitual reading of the Bible in order to hear what you are saying. I mean putting more effort into hearing you by reading scripture, than hearing you speak direct.
What did Paul tell you?
Well, I’m thinking about where he said we should imitate him, because he imitated you?
Exactly. Did Paul and I rely most heavily on scripture, or on hearing God speak direct?
Well, could the answer be bo…
The answer is not both, Mark! History proves that each of us had an extensive knowledge of scripture, but we could not survive without hearing from God direct, Spirit to spirit. Paul told you that he imitated me, and that you should imitate him.
So God, you’re saying that listening to you direct, Spirit to spirit, is more important than reading the Bible?
Much more im…
Hang on God this is a problem for people, Religious leaders have told them that listening to you direct is dangerous, we might hear wrong.
Yes, you might. It’s happened before and it will happen again. But then listening to me through the Bible is equally dangerous, Mark, that was the Pharisees’ key mistake.
John 5:39&40 “You have your heads in your Bibles constantly because you think you’ll find eternal life there. But you miss the forest for the trees. These Scriptures are all about me! And here I am, standing right before you, and you aren’t willing to receive from me the life you say you want.”
The bible’s a funny book Mark.
Go away God! I don't find it amusing when you say things like that. The moment I let you open up on stuff like that it’s me that gets in the gun. In the old days they’d burn you at the stake for disagreeing with their perspective on the bible.
These days they blithely call you a heretic and start ranting to others that you’re deceived, evil blah blah blah. So go away please God I don’t want to know – “the bible’s a funny book”. I mean seriously!!
But I do want to talk about this.
God!! NO!!! I don’t want this discussion.
I just told you.
Actually Mark, shall I explain something?
Well alright, obviously you’re going to anyway. So be my guest.
I won’t if you don’t want Mark.
Oh whatever God. Go for it. Spill the beans.
If you’re sure.
Ok. This is from the one who sees the heart. I know the real reasons you do things.
But I’m always gentle about what I expose Mark. The real reason you don’t like me talking about things that challenge popular Christian teaching is not the controversy it causes. Be honest, you love controversy, anything for a reaction.
You could have fooled me God, the constant accusations that I’m a heretic and deceived wear me down.
Actually they don’t, they invigorate you, they bring the problem out in the open, expose the attitudes that Religion has slipped unnoticed into organised Christianity. Once seen you can attack and decimate them, you like that Mark. You’ve sworn an oath before me to destroy Religion, to make him cower. You know that. I know that.
Ok. Alright I admit it. So if that’s not the reason then tell me what is? Why don’t I like you dropping stuff like that on me? Because God one thing’s for sure, I don’t. I do not like it when you drop subjects on me like “The bible’s a funny book.” That just doesn’t sound like you God.
Exactly and there lies the problem. It’s not what others think, it’s what you think Mark. This whole idea, conversation like this with me, defies everything you’ve ever been taught about God, Jesus, Christianity, heaven and hell. It’s not everyone else’s religion that you’re worried about, it’s your own. You are still, after all these years and three books about it, still uncomfortable about this idea of talking back and forth with me.
Well God it’s so weird, you have to admit that! It’s not just the naysayers this sounds weird to, it sounds weird to me too!!
Alright good. Now you’re being honest. No it’s not weird at all Mark, just not taught. Not known. Unfamiliar. Like a toddler learning to walk. Something in that child tells them they were born for this, that walking is just the beginning of what they were born for – but something else screams “be careful you might fall.” When we speak like this your problem is you’re hearing the “be careful you might fall” voice.
So Mark shall we continue? I want to talk about the bible, it’s a funny book.
Do I have a choice?
Not really God. Not if I don’t want to upset you.
Mark I’m very difficult to upset. If your kids won’t talk about what you want to, how upset are you really?
Well sometimes, quite a lot. I’m embarrassed to admit it, but sometimes I get a bit shitty when they don’t want to talk about what I want to.
Exactly again Mark, but me, I’m not like that. I have nothing to be embarrassed about. I don’t get…
NO! Don’t say that word God. If I write that word as coming out of your mouth I’ll get excommunicated.
No you won’t. You’re not ‘communicated’ to anything anyway Mark, but you’d be surprised how hungry people are for the God that speaks like them, the God who’s not prissy, not a prude. The real God. Humans are screaming out for the real God, and religious people like you are putting them off.
Religious?? Man God that’s a bit blimmen hurtful.
Well Mark you are. The reason you don’t like me startling you with conversations about the bible being a funny book, or the racial strife between Pakeha and Maori, is that those subjects challenge your real perspective on me. You’re nailed hard to that god you think crucified his own son in your place. That god who’s focused on your sin, focused on getting you ‘pure’ to keep you out of hell.
Yes I knew you would crucify my son, but no I didn’t crucify him, didn’t need to punish someone. Yes I used the cross to defeat your enemy but not in the way you think I did. If you all listened to me instead of spending your lives telling me, you’d understand Mark.
Man God, you just stir this stuff up on purpose don’t you (smiling). If it was someone else you were talking to I’d laugh, think it funny, but somehow it’s not when you talk to me.
Yes it is. Very funny. You’re wanting to laugh right now. You love that I’m a God with a brain, a God who doesn’t buy Religion’s lies.
Ok fine. That’s what I love. Are you going to talk about why the bible’s a funny book or not??
I’ll take that as permission (smiling).
You said you were smiling?
Of course. You’re created in my image. You smile, which means I do too.
Ok, carry on God.
Mark the bible’s a funny book.
Alright I’ll humour you God, why is the bible a funny book?
Because it’s true, yet what so many people think it says is a lie. Because it’s not a riddle, the truth is there in plain sight, but it’s presented as though it was a riddle. Some things are not fully stated, others are stated in one way, and then later in the opposite.
Alright, ok God. Give me some examples. But before you do, you know this is a problem right? People think the bible is sacred, almost as though they think the pages themselves are somehow holy or something, so writing down these words of yours will have them up in arms.
As we’ve already discussed Mark, that’s not your problem so drop it. Your problem is that you yourself are incredulous that I’d say such a thing about the bible. It challenges your thinking.
Alright true God.
And Mark that’s the devil’s trick. He makes you think of the bible as some sacred document, a book to be careful of, a book to tread gently around, a book that can be offended in some mystic way. He lies. The bible is a bunch of stories about people and the way they spoke to me and I spoke back. Me. God. Not some lofty God, but me. Jesus. I’m the one who turned up the illegitimate child of a girl from Nazereth, the wrong side of the tracks. I’m not prissy, not precious, I invented the birth process, the bloody mess that leads to life. I’m a realist Mark. I have to be, I invented reality.
Your point God?
That the bible, if it really is documented history about humans and me, and it is, then it’s not to be treated religiously or carefully. It’s a book to be challenged and dug into.
Really. If I invite you to challenge me personally…
Isaiah 1:18: “Come let us reason together [‘yakach’: to decide, adjudge, prove, reprove]
If I invite you to reprove me, while I do the same to you, then obviously, without question I’m inviting you to do the same to the book that includes human’s words to me and mine back to them.
God that’s not how the bigwigs like to think of the bible. They don’t call it “human’s words to you and yours back to them.” They say in hallowed tones that it’s ‘your word’. Obviously saying it that way makes them sound important to themselves.
Mark they’re not alone. You like to sound important to yourself too.
Smiling. Ok true God. Point taken.
Mark the bible is not ‘my word’, it contains some of my words. Comparatively very few given that the heavens pour forth speech. I speak more words in a single day, every day Mark, than those recorded in the bible.
Oh no. You didn’t just say that God!!
I did Mark. Get over yourself. The bible isn’t ‘my word’, it’s some of my words along with a lot of human history. My ‘word’ is Jesus. My ‘words’ are the words that proceed from my mouth. Some of which are recorded in the bible, most of which are not.
Oh dear dear dear dear dear!
Yes. The problem is serious.
That’s not what I meant God!! You know that.
Yes. Just being clever Mark. Shall we continue?
You’re going to anyway, so yes let me have it, both barrels.
Ok Mark here’s the point. This conversation is just the introduction. The bible is a funny book. What you think it means it doesn’t. You think it’s incredibly important for religious reasons. You’re wrong. It’s important, actually far more important than any of you realises, but for reasons you don’t even understand. The bible contains truths, just inside the door of the book, that none of you ever get to. You’re too busy dissecting the passages in the door way of the book to get any further.
Whatever happened to the idea that listening to me led you to things you’d never heard before Mark? You’re all so busy trying to hear, and hear again all the things you already know. And yet you don’t know those things at all. Ask your friends who’ve given their lives to studying the bible, people like Mark Virkler, or Charity, or Baxter Kruger, Mark Keown, Bryden Black or Geoff Woodcock, they’ll tell you that the more one learns about the bible, the more one learns that you know almost nothing.
Even those popular passages, the ones you’re all fixated on, are largely misunderstood by almost all of Christendom. Including you. Especially including you.
You said that last bit God. Especially including me?
Of course. When you decide like you have to spend your life listening to me you quickly discover that actually you know nothing. Or like your great buddy Geoff Hill says, “you don’t know what you don’t know”.
Ok. As usual God, you start out talking about something simple – “the bible’s a funny book”, and suddenly we’re all over the blimmen planet of truth.
Stick with me Mark we’re going somewhere. The bible’s a funny book - it’s not about what you all think it’s about.
Oh lovely God.
Mark steady on… remember “Call to me and I will show you things you know nothing about.”
Ok, so explain why it’s a funny book God.
Two very simple examples Mark. We’ve talked about them both before but in a different context. But I’ll stick with them to make this easy for you. First is the Abraham story. People, well-meaning people, make the ridiculous assumption that the number of times I spoke to Abraham in the bible is the total number of times I spoke to Abraham. Honestly? You Christians need to recognise the bible is a brainy book and can’t be understood unless you use your brains when you read it. What have I told you about that topic Mark?
That the times you spoke to Abraham recorded in the bible, are simply the ones recorded in the bible?
Yes. That’s my point. You Christians make ridiculous assumptions about the bible, you included. You read something and you decide what it means and then deify what you think. You forget to ask me, you don’t know how because you think I’m confined to having to speak through scripture. Of course I speak through scripture. But Mark, sorry to offend you, I speak through Beatles songs and Harry Potter Novels too. I’ll speak through whatever I have to, I’m not precious remember.
What about you Mark? Can you only talk to your kids by txt, or are you happy to phone them, skype them and even just sit and talk with them?
Mark my second point, another bible story, is this. The bible makes it clear that arch angels, when speaking to the devil, in one situation at least, rather than rebuke him direct, called on me to rebuke him.
And yet in another passage the bible makes it clear that archangels wrestle with the prince of darkness themselves, with no mention of deferring the battle to me.
It’s a funny book Mark. It says one thing, and then another. You can’t build a doctrine on a passage. Why am I telling you this?
Because we need to listen to you speak direct to our spirits to explain what the bible does and doesn’t mean.
Exactly. How long before I can speak with you like friends, and not my religious servants? I spilled a lot of blood for the right Mark, as did the prophets. Will this be the generation that learns at last to hear me speak direct?
The damnable, bald-faced, Satanic lie. The lie that God only speaks through the bible.
God I think you said earlier today, that you want to talk about the lie…
Yes I do Mark. I want to expose the lie.
Are you sure?
I’m sure. The lie has gone on too long. Most know it’s a lie, but are afraid to expose it, afraid they might be misunderstood, afraid people will misunderstand and shun them.
I’m a bit concerned about that myself God.
Don’t be. I want this said. You’re not the only one who’s going to say it. Many of you are hearing me tell you to say this, but you’re worried it might not be me. That’s because this is the news your enemy is terrified will get out.
Ok, I’m happy to do it then God, happy to expose the lie, as long as you’re really sure. This will shock some people God. Are you sure you want to shock people??
You know the bible verses about that Mark. Plenty of them. Verses that make it clear that shocking is often necessary. Verses about that, and stories about this one or that, saying things that shock and concern. People moved by me to break things apart. Remember what Ahab said about Elijah?
Yes. It’s the verse before my favourite verse, my absolute favourite. “Is that you oh troubler of Israel?”
Yes. My heroes have always been seen as trouble makers.
Well get on with it Mark.
You mean expose the lie?
Expose the lie.
Go on Mark, do you have the courage?
God are you challenging me??
Ok then, I’m up for it, I’ll speak it out.
‘on with it then Mark.
Ok God you’re talking about the lie, the vicious, mischievous lie that God only speaks through the bible.
Yes what God?
Yes it’s a lie.
God somehow I’d rather that I had said it. It seems pretty scary to hear you say it yourself.
It’s a lie Mark.
Ok then, you want to expose the lie that we don’t need to listen for your voice in any other way. The lie that the bible is enough, the lie that we don’t need to hear you in the Spirit, don’t need to listen for your voice direct to our spirits.
Yes that lie. You’re doing well. You’ll get in trouble for this, but be so thankful you were born in this generation. Men have been burned at the stake by the Religion and his servants, and burned for much less than exposing this lie.
Yes. You’re hitting right at the heart of the Satanic Kingdom Mark. Satan’s lie that the bible is so wonderful that you don’t need to listen to me.
Ok God, I’ll take it from here – you’re talking about the lie that takes away the beauty of hearing your voice. ‘The gentle voice’ as my mate Daniel Walker says. Your sometimes gentle, sometimes hilariously funny, sometimes melodic voice. The voice as you called it in John 5:30, the voice that whispers, sings and hums words to us – whole wonderful sentences to us, full paragraphs to us. The lie that robs us of all that, and makes us so, soooo religious and rule-bound.
Yes. You’re doing well. And it is a lie Mark. It’s time you stopped pussyfooting around the subject. When someone tells you that the bible is the only way I speak, don’t worry about offending them, just call them on the lie. Because it is. It’s a damnable, corrupt and sinister lie. It stops my people hearing my voice. Imagine someone convinced your kids that the only way to hear you was reading your emails. Imagine someone prevented you from speaking direct to them. You’d be angry. I am Mark. Angry. Not with people but with the father of that lie. I want you to put you hand over his mouth Mark. Push him back. Command him silent.
Whoa God! You’re getting all worked up. Wow.
You love it Mark, you love it when you sense me rumble. So stop worrying about being mistaken for someone who doesn’t value the bible. You’ve authored a book filed with bible verses. Don’t worry about what people think, just speak what I have told you. Get on with the job! Of course I speak through the bible. But I speak more into a person’s heart, much more than I do than I do through the bible. There, I’ve said it. Now, let the battle begin.
Of course more Mark. Think about it. Even those literate enough to read, and wealthy enough to have constant access to the bible, you are only going to be reading it for a small part of the time. You’re human! But you can be listening to me whenever you have a question you would normally ask yourself. You’re always asking yourself this question or that. It’s a human thing. But imagine if, instead of asking yourself all those questions, you asked me and received answers direct to your mind and spirit. Mark it’s not practical to find a bible and rummage through the pages, every time you have a question.
God there are plenty of church bosses who are deeply worried about that idea. They’re worried that if people put too much emphasis on hearing you, that they might make a mistake, might hear you wrong.
Yes. And Mark if the Pharisees, bible experts, could get scripture so wrong that they horribly murdered the God of their scriptures, then it’s clear that reading the bible, is just as dangerous as listening to me.
Mark I want the naysayers, the bible-pharisees to stop and think, I want them to answer these questions… I want them to stop burdening others with so many rules about how I do and don’t speak. I want them to stop shutting up the door to those who just want to hear me, to those tired of Religion’s rules and regulations.
Ok God. A bit rude…
Overdue rude Mark. Ask them this; they’re the bible experts, they know that I promised that after I had gone, the Holy Spirit would come and speak. So where do they get the idea that the voice of the Holy Spirit would only last until the bible was canonised? What a ridiculous idea.
You Christians need to start thinking Mark. Why would I do that? Why would I speak to you one day, and then the day the bible is finally canonised, suddenly stop speaking? Give me one good reason a loving Father would do that. You Christians have to stop peddling Religion’s silly lies. He’s bad enough, doing damage enough, without you helping him spread his mischief.
One good reason God? They seem to have way more than just one!!!
Yes plenty of reasons Mark, and all of them a sham, smoke and mirrors Mark. A lie.
You’re pretty het up about this God??
You have no idea Mark, if you could see the centuries of people robbed of the chance to hear my voice. Robbed by this lie that I only speak through the bible. That lie is one of the ‘gods’ of Satan’s unholy trinity.
Yes. The three Satanic Majesties – the unholy trinity. The first of those three great dark majesties, is that you must constantly be thinking about, and trying to improve on, and confessing your faults.
Then there’s the lie that I only speak through the bible. And yet I am always speaking Mark. I have never stopped. Do you honestly think that I, the God of heaven and earth, am bound by a book? Honestly? That I can only speak through those written words? Honestly??
Matt 4:4 Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Ok that’s two, but there are three?
Yes. That you must listen to the priests if you want to hear me. Religion has always had its priests, always fooled you that the safest way to hear me is through them. It’s a lie Mark. The true priests don’t want you believing that any more than I do. They want you hearing for yourself. It’s not their job to hear for you.
1 John 2:27 “You do not need any man to teach you, but the Spirit that you have received teaches you. Remain in him.”
God I’m resisting the urge to reprimand you and tell you to please not talk like this, it will only get people’s backs up.
Well, that’s the unholy trinity Mark. There it is. Three great lies, three satanic majesties. Each lie governed and managed by a major dark angel presence, a strongman.
Exactly. And Mark be honest with yourself, you don’t actually really care about getting people’s backs up, not if they are constantly preventing others from listening to my voice. My cool, clear, healing voice. You think you do, but actually you don’t. You’ve had enough of pussyfooting, and so have I. It’s time Religion was silenced. His mischief must stop. Yes of course I speak through the bible, but equally, and more often, far more often, I speak to men’s hearts. Direct. And women, and children. I speak to humans. Direct. And no, they don’t have to be good. They don’t have to be ‘saved’, they just have to be human. The bible makes that clear Mark. I spoke to people whatever they were like. And I’m still the same God.
The bible is a wonderful book, but my voice is an even more wonderful thing. Yes I speak through the bible. But how did the early church hear me, how did John hear me, how did I myself hear my Father? Only through scripture?? Pah!! Use your brains Mark. All of you, use your brains. You must start using them. If you want to win the world, you need to engage your brains and see the ridiculous lies Religion tells you for what they are.
And Mark, what about the centuries of Christians, who couldn’t read, what about them? How did they hear from me, when they couldn’t read the bible anyway? Come on, answer me that?
God you’re preaching to the converted.
Yes. But you’re not. Tell them. Tell them to use their brains and stop preventing others from hearing me.
My marriage came crashing down and me with it. The devastation began sinking in and me with it. Nothing I knew was the same anymore. It was horrible and I was terrified. I threw my pride to the wind and screamed (literally) to God.